Garmin 800 Review

One of the first trip reports we read said that you can always count on your bicycle computer malfunctioning on a tour. Certainly ours have. Lady CoMo has her needs, one is a computer. We decided on a Garmin 800, mounted on the stoker's handlebar. If I think Mary's bored I can call out, "What's our cadence?" 🙂

The Garmin 800 comes in two flavours: just the GPS unit, or with cadence and heart rate monitor. Bearing in mind Mick's comment ("is it about the ride or the rider") we went for the full package. This basically means that, in addition to the GPS unit itself, there is a cadence sensor for the crank arm, and a heart rate monitor for the rider.

garmin-800-0 Starting

The 800 has three buttons to press: an on/off button on the side; a lap/reset button (which also saves your activity); and a start/stop button for the timer. (You can't see these in the photo but, trust me, they're there.) All other functions are controlled on the touch-sensitive screen, which is very well designed and whose icons are large enough to be highly accurate.

When the unit is turned on it first finds itself, i.e. it locates its satellites. This can take a few minutes and works best in an open area with an unobstructed view of the heavens.

Pressing "Menu" navigates to the screen below.

garmin-800-1 Main Menu

As you can see, the icons on the screen are nice and large. To ride, one presses the "X" on the bottom left corner, starts the timer, and rides. That's it. The system records everything from that point forward.

We haven't experimented with the other main menu icons (Where To Go, Training, History, and Courses). I expect these are used to load routes, set training profiles, etc. The History icon shows summary statistics for all rides saved on the 800.

You can customize the display for riding by pressing the spanner icon on the bottom right. This navigates to the Tool Options screen from which you start to navigate to the specific settings you want to change. I won't list them all here, but navigation is very intuitive. I spent an hour flipping through all of them, and thereafter can find a setting quite quickly.

garmin-800-2 Tool Option screen

The settings we are interested in are the display pages. To get there I go Bike Settings > Training Pages. This lists all the pages available for display when you are riding.

garmin-800-3 Bike Settings

garmin-800-4 Training Pages

Some of these pages can be displayed selectively. For example, we only display one page of data. To choose its layout I press on "Page 1". This pulls up the layout of Page 1.

garmin-800-5 Page One Layout

From here I can change the number of fields on this page by pressing the checkmark on the bottom right. I can then increase or decrease the number of fields to be displayed.

garmin-800-6 Changing Fields

To change any field on the display, I tap on it. This pulls up the list of available display options, of which there are many. For example, cadence can be shown as actual, average,etc. It also displays percent gradient (Mary's favourite).

garmin-800-7 Field Selections

That's basically it. The screen we display while riding is the Page One Layout above (which is what we look at most of the time), We can also show a competitive dude (must be a buddy of Titanium Man), an elevation profile of the recent kilometers, and a navigation map.

After recording a ride, we download to (not garmin.connect, or connect.garmen, or garmen.connect). From there it appears we can do a lot with the data. For now we only download, look at it and say "Oooh, we should be able to so better than that."

One major advantage of the Garmin over regular bicycle computers is being able to display data over the entire ride. For example, we can look at the heartrate profile and compare it to the gradient at the same point in time. (Our heart rates seem to be higher on the first 15 minutes of the ride – this must be our warmup time.) This is much more informative than the average heartrate you would get from a regular computer.

Summary: Garmin got it right. For us, as neophytes, the unit is simple-stupid to use. It shows everything we want and nothing more. We will eventually get around to all the other fancy stuff. But for now, its basic recording it is hard to beat.

27 comments on “Garmin 800 Review”

  1. Mary wrote:

    I have never managed to get my Garmin Edge 600 to work properly.

    Although, I too only use my Edge for recording of trips, for anything else, its just not 'got it'.

    Im supposed to be able to download routes and maps and I have never been able to be successful with this aspect, even though I paid out for maps etc. I wish Garmin had a little chap they could post out to me to SHOW me exactly how it all works, there is a presumption with instructions that the user has SOME knowledge... 🙂

    Not enough to put me off Garmin tho' as I am about to buy a Garmin Etrex 30. I need a GPS with a barometer altimeter for accurate Audax climbing, and the Edge 600 does not have one. Etrex 30 has got OS mapping (have to fork out for this though) and is supposed to be Mac compatible. But, I ask is it MARY compatible..... Wait and see.

    Good luck with this Kern, I expect your much more IT savy than I am. Its a logic thing, and I dont seem to have much of that! 🙂 🙂

    Will you be using it with Garmin Connect?

  2. Patrick wrote:

    Good to hear the Edge 800 is working well Kern.

    The eTrex 30 looks good too. It seems like an upgrade of the one I use – Legend HCx which I've been very pleased with (and still am). If it was me I would not buy the Ordnance Survey type maps but the City Navigator NT type on DVD. Mapping brings a cycling GPS to life (and potentially puts [Kern's] Mary in the driving seat).

  3. Stephen Almond wrote:

    Did you consider the Edge 500. Am I right to think this is the same as an 800 but without the maps?

  4. Kern wrote:

    Hi Mary. Yes we have used it with Garmin Connect (sample link here but no heart rate monitor). A couple of notes.
    1. It only works on the specific link – there are other Garmin sites but they are very confusing.
    2. The automatic download feature does not work for us so we use Manual Download instead.
    3. The process was a bit cludgy at first. The site did not recognize the Garmin, etc. Turning the Garmin off and on seemed to take care of that issue.
    4. It works with Mary's Mac as well as my PC.
    If you want me to send screen shots of the process let me know.

    Hi Stephen. No, we did not consider the Edge 500. After the comments I got from an earlier post I decided that maps were worthwhile. Also, it was Mary who did the shopping. I mentioned the 800. She looked up some reviews (all complimentary), went out and bought one. This is sort of along the lines of [CycleSeven's] Mary's advice "let her have her own way no matter what!"

  5. Patrick wrote:

    I'd be interested to know if you've tried BaseCamp. My eTrex Legend HCx was supplied with Garmin MapSource – a mapping program useful for creating/analysing routes, interfacing Google Earth, transferring routes and maps to the device etc.

    MapSource is now discontinued, apparently replaced by Garmin BaseCamp which can be downloaded for PC or Mac. Things are moving on...

  6. Kern wrote:

    re: BaseCamp. Hmmm ... first I've heard of it. I checked a Garmin forum and it appears that the Edge 800 and BaseCamp can be made compatible.

    The amount of time one can spend in front of a computer is a source of wonder – there are just too many distractions, trivial or otherwise. Do you think BaseCamp is worth the investment of time? It appears to be an application in which one could get absorbed.

  7. Patrick wrote:

    I don't know BaseCamp Kern, except that it is supposed to be the new MapSource. I do find MapSource very useful. I use it as the main interface with my GPS unit, to transfer maps and routes up to the device, download tracks from the device, and to edit the routes I've created in Google Earth – those are converted from GE KMZ format files into usable .gpx files with a program called RouteConverter. It sounds long-winded but in practice it takes very little time.

    If you are just putting your cycled tracks on Garmin Connect then you won't need BaseCamp, or even to plan routes if you are doing those online. As a matter of fact I also use Windows Notepad to edit or combine planned routes.

    I was just curious really (if you'd found it a useful tool).

  8. Mick F wrote:

    Great stuff. Thanks. It makes my 705 look antiquated! Although the screen info and the way it works is similar, I do wonder if the 800 has as many foibles as the 705.

    Mine was a steep learning curve, and I haven't learned it all, but what I have learned and use is really all I want, so I'm very happy indeed. No doubt I'll modernise to an 800 if and when my 705 gives up the ghost.


  9. Graham L wrote:

    Well, I've owned a few satnavs in my time and managed to get used to their peculiarities but the Edge 800 is a different breed. Don't get me wrong, I'm a bloke who likes gadgets but I've yet to warm to this one. Each time I've used it as a satnav in York of all places it has got me lost !! Only last Sunday I was outside the Minster wanting to get onto the York to Selby trail. Having completed this ride twice before I knew which road I wanted to get back to. I ended up going on the road to Hull !!

    Not much success with courses I haver mapped and loaded onto it. The second time I went on the Selby to York trail I used the device. I went off course and several miles later I realised the device was trying to send me BACK to the start of my ride !!

    I checked this out on a forum and everyone was saying don't have the recalculate setting to on when completing a course as it DOES try and send you back to the start !! Never owned a satnav that does that. I'm not going to give in to it having invested a large sum of money but it's definitely not user friendly and the instructions you get with it are a bit of an insult.

    The one good thing I noticed was when I completed a charity cycle ride. I switched the device on only to log how many miles and calories were used but didn't realise when I uploaded it onto the computer into Garmin software it had memorised the route, told me the lowest, highest and average temperature, calories used, fastest and average speed, elevation etc etc.

    All good stuff I must say . . but I just want it to be an easy satnav and route follower that doesn't get me lost when using both. Not too much to ask in my book. Now where can I get lost this weekend 🙂

  10. Kern wrote:

    Hi Graham. I haven't used the Garmin to navigate a route yet – in fact we are planning to experiment with it this weekend.

    Getting maps onto the Garmin was extremely frustrating. We bought the City Navigator maps for our upcoming tour. The instructions on the box sounded simple-stupid. Both Mary and I tried to load the maps onto her Mac and my PC. Neither succeeded. Apparently she has now managed to load them, but only after calling the Garmin help desk.

    Thanks for the heads up on the Recalculate setting – I will definitely check this before setting out. If we run into each other this weekend, we'll both definitely be lost 🙂 .

  11. Graham L wrote:

    I'm pleased to report that my Garmin is becoming a trusty companion. The secret is . . . it comes into its own on roads rather than cycle paths I've found. Two weeks ago I downloaded a route that took me around villages on the outskirts of York and the 800 was brilliant. Every turn was found and the appropriate exit off a roundabout also found. I just find when I go on the cycle trails around York it comes up with 'off course' warnings which I'm clearly not.

    Last week I took my daughter on a bike ride that set off from Rawcliffe on the outskirts of York. The plan was to take her to her favourite Nation Trust property Beningbrough Hall. I was mindful of all the rain we had and we were going to go and cycle near the River Ouse !!

    We set off on the cycle trail that takes you close to the Ouse and after a few minutes we saw a puddle on the trail which we negotiated. Turned a bend, to see the way ahead covered in water. We turned around and went back to the road from where we set off. I looked at the POIs on the Garmin and sure enough Beningbrough Hall was featured. Chose it, and again it took us straight there on country roads without any problems.

    Nice lunch there an off we went with the route I had plotted this time that took in Wiggington, Haxby, Strensall, Huntingdon past the Minster to my favourite old fashioned ice cream van by Cliffords Tower. We were going to return to where we started from via the cycle trail alongside the Ouse in the City but as everything in close proximity of the Ouse was under water a Plan B was needed. Took a while to locate Rawcliffe on the Edge 800 but once it did it took us out of the city centre onto the main road back to our start. Fair to say it, it saved a lot of time and frustration when we were thwarted by mother nature. The only hiccup was when we initially went on the cycle trail at the start and I had plotted that onto the Garmin and within 50 yards of getting on it, it came up with 'off course' Decided to ignore it and follow the blue and white signs to Beningbrough. No rain that day was a bonus and spells of sun was a bigger bonus. Well done to my daughter who is quite new to cycling and the same to the Edge 800 for being a star performer. It performed well with a planned route downloaded onto it and equally when it was being used as a satnav 🙂

  12. Kern wrote:

    Graham, I am delighted hear that route instructions are so easily followed on the Edge. I am curious to know which software you used to create the course. We have not yet had a chance to follow a course using our Edge 800. We managed to load a course (created on Garmin Connect) on the device, but there is no background map behind it.

    About a month ago we bought the Garmin City Navigator maps for Europe in anticipation of our ride next month. Garmin delivers these maps in three ways: by download, on a microSD card, and on a DVD. We chose the DVD format, figuring this will have the most flexibility. The advantages of DVDs over pre-burned microSD cards are that 1) you can load the maps onto more than one computer, and 2) you can map routes on the computer without being tethered to the Garmin device (and then upload later).

    The instructions on the DVD package are deceptively simple: you basically insert the DVD and follow the prompts, or so they would have you believe. What they don’t tell you (either on the package or the Garmin web site) is that you have to have your Garmin device plugged into your computer in order to download the maps. Frustration number one. Mary figured that one out with some Garmin phone support.

    After loading the maps to her Mac, she transferred the maps to the Edge. Or so she thought. When I turned on the Edge this weekend to check a route, the route was there as a squiggly line, but with no background map behind it.

    So we reloaded the maps onto the Edge. It took over three hours to move the maps, with numerous “freezes” and ambiguous messaging (“yes, your load is 100% complete” but nothing will move on your system). And at the end of process Mary’s Mac crashed. Still no maps on the Edge.

    I have no problem with Garmin’s approach to protecting its intellectual property. Basically they restrict you to loading maps onto one and only one Garmin device. However I take great issue with unclear instructions and faulty software, particularly when paying a premium price (no one ever accused Garmin of being cheap). In my humble opinion, Garmin has overlooked or ignored the most basic elements of usability testing in its product design. After three significant attempts at loading our maps onto the Edge we are no closer to being able to use the device for navigation on our trip, and there are only a limited number of weekends left. It is very frustrating.

    My other observation is regarding the Base Camp mapping software that comes with the DVD. I have not had a lot of time to devote to learning Base Camp, but from what I’ve seen it is very non-intuitive. I was hoping (i.e. expecting) that the mapping program would be identical to the mapping tool used on Garmin Connect. This web-based tool is very easy to use. No such luck. Frustration number two.

    So there it is. We’ve spent a pile of money on really good maps and a really good navigating tool. We have not been able to join them together at the hip. There are not a lot of spare minutes these days (I haven’t been on a bike in a couple of weeks). I am not a happy camper.

  13. Patrick wrote:

    I can sympathise with this. Garmin 'instructions' are notoriously uninformative (this also applies to their car satnavs). There is a cycling forum frequented by some knowledgable people on GPS – might be worth a look or joining to ask for advice? The link goes to the GPS forum. From what I've read BTW, there may be issues with Mac – there were at one time anyway.

    PS: Only transfer the sections of map that you need for your trip. I take it you are doing this, and not attempting to transfer too much map?

  14. Kern wrote:

    Only transfer the sections of map that you need for your trip

    I don't recall seeing this as an option ...

  15. Patrick wrote:

    I've not used BaseCamp but in MapSource (its predecessor) you select the map tool and click on the map to highlight the 'tiles' you want to transfer to the unit (the map is tiled). This creates a 'map set' ready for transfer. Even a map set of a few tiles take a while to copy over to the SD card. The whole map of Europe is a huge amount of data – too much to attempt to store on the card IMO.

    I would be surprised if you need more than 3 or 4 map tiles for one cycle tour. The next time you create and transfer a map set it will over-write the previous one.

    Note... this is based on my experience with an eTrex Legend HCx but I use the same Garmin City Navigator maps (for Europe).

    Added later:

    Kern wrote: they restrict you to loading maps onto one and only one Garmin device

    This seems like Garmin being really stupid. For instance I might consider upgrading my eTrex Legend HCx to an eTrex 30. Well, I am not buying another identical map! Which means I won't be buying an eTrex 30 until my HCx is completely broken, and when that happens I'll use OpenStreetMap.

    (They used to let you load your NT Navigator maps onto a second unit but not any more)

  16. Graham L wrote:

    I've been using MapMyRide to plot routes. I've just completed two routes which didn't go according to plan since the last posting. I completed a ride that the Edge 800 'remembered'. I did the ride again recently using the route it remembered and noticed this time no turn by turn notification or sound alerts ??

    The route was shown by means of a red line and it did show a white arrow indicating a left or right turn but no distance/time markers and tone to the actual turning. I just put it down to it being a course the Edge 800 had remembered but not one that I had actually plotted and downloaded onto it.

    That theory was sideswiped today !! Plotted a route downloaded it and set off today . . .and same again. No turn by turn instruction popping up with the audible tone. Again I could see the red line on the map indicating the route and the white arrow showing a left or a right turn but no actual instruction or tones. Therefore extra concentration required.

    I've just come off a Garmin forum and some people are experiencing the same problem and blaming it on a 'bug' within the Garmin software.

    It appears to be pot luck if you get the instructions/tones or not. Very frustrating on a device that's supposed to be the 'market leader'.

    You really need the clear instruction and beeps. As you get to say a town centre with other roads it's not always easy to see the actual route on the map due to a busy screen with all the other roads shown.

    Everyone is hoping a firmware upgrade will be forthcoming to iron out these kind of problems. Here Here.

  17. Patrick wrote:

    This seems worth a read: Frank Kinlan's Dummies Guide to the Garmin Edge 800

    "Trust me you have not made the wrong choice," says Frank. In particular, with regard to transferring City Navigator maps for Mac users:

    1. The Edge 800 only connects to a Mac if it is switched off before connecting. This is counter-intuitive but I have come to realise that the techies who designed the 800 have a mind of their own.

    2. If you do download the City Navigator, you need an SD card. Silly me, I thought it would just download onto the device itself but there is insufficient space on the internal memory of the 800 to take City Navigator so you will need to buy a Micro SD card separately.

    3. When you do copy City Navigator off your PC / Mac onto the SD card you must first create a directory ‘Garmin’ on the SD card to take the files. Then, if you have a Mac, you need to call the support line at Garmin and they will guide you through a bizarre process that includes emptying the ‘Trash’ directory on the Mac. This is clearly becoming a well worn path for the support guys.

  18. Kern wrote:

    Patrick / Graham. Thanks for the updates. Frank Kinlan's instructions are insightful. I just read them out to Mary. "No wonder it didn't work. It wasn't just us!"

    I finally had the chance for a ride this week. When getting ready I noticed a broken rear spoke. Groan. Bertrand was able to set me straight in time for an evening climb to Champlian Lookout. After so much riding time on Lady CoMo, the Bertrand felt skittish. Bliss.

  19. Kern wrote:

    Latest City Navigator update:

    We managed to load the maps onto the Garmin using the Mac. I'm not quite sure how we did it, but we got a success message.

    So I turned on the Garmin and opened a course previously created on Garmin Connect. The course came up as a squiggly line against a black background with white lettering for towns. Useless.

    Mary called Garmin tech support who explained that 1) because our maps are for Europe and 2) we are in North America (out of European satellite range) we won't see any maps on the 800.

    So ... I guess we have to get on the plane with our 800 in hand and hope for the best. We have a hardcopy map and a case of highlighters for backup.

    Patrick: Frank Kinlan's site is very worthwhile – thanks for the link.

  20. Patrick wrote:

    It doesn't make sense to me Kern – what Garmin tech support said – unless your 800 works completely differently to my eTrex (and I don't see why it would). If the Europe map is on your unit then you should be able to see it, regardless of where you are. It has nothing to do with satellites, as you are simply scrolling the display sideways from Canada to Europe (can be done with satellites 'turned off').

    Besides, if you are seeing place names behind your course, even in white, you are seeing a map of some sort. If you tried to view your course, and the map, during the hours of darkness it may be that your Garmin is set for night-time display which reverses the contrast to light on dark. Also, if the course you are viewing is, say, in Canada, and the Canada map is not on the unit then you will only see the default base map supplied with it (contains much less information).

    If (for whatever reason) the maps don't work you can still follow or record a course on your Garmin, so it's always worth having with you on your trip. Either way, have a nice time in Europe!

  21. Patrick wrote:

    I've just read this somewhere (my bold):

    Quote: "Create a folder called garmin (with a small g) on the card and place any mapping / route details within it. Until I did that the GPS couldn't see it. Eventually the penny dropped."

  22. Kern wrote:

    I spent the better part of an hour on the phone with Garmin tech support the other night. Despite finally getting cut off I learned a few things.

    1. Our maps are on the Edge 800. Good news.
    2. Using Garmin Base Camp, I created a very short route (a few kilometers in length) and loaded it onto the device.
    3. On the Edge I could see all the map details for the route. Good news.
    4. I created a longer route (50 kms) and loaded it onto the Edge.
    5. The longer route does not show the background detail even when I zoom in. Strange and unsettling. I suspect (i.e. hope) it will show the background details when we are riding.
    6. In the Land of Garmin, a "route" is different from a "course". When following a route, the Edge will give turn-by-turn directions. When following a course it only gives directional orientation.
    7. Needless to say, all our plans have been created as "courses" (on the Garmin Connect site). No, there is no way to convert a course to a route. Sigh ...
    8. The City Navigator DVD is Windows 7 compatible but not Windows XT compatible. I don't have to mention which operating system I use, do I?

  23. Patrick wrote:

    Kern wrote: When following a route, the Edge will give turn-by-turn directions. When following a course it only gives directional orientation.

    I never use 'routes' as the 'course' method is better IMO, although I call it 'track'. A route is essentially a series of 'waypoints' joined up only by the unit's 'brain' – not 100% reliable. A course (or track) is fixed, like the line you draw on a map; with this method you know exactly where you're going (and the batteries will last longer).

    That is how I see it anyway Kern. A 'route' does have the advantage that if you deviate, the GPS will recalculate and bring you back. A 'course' won't do that so you are always looking for the wiggly line. The battery life thing can be quite important on a bike tour.

  24. ruth williams wrote:

    I found this really useful , thank you. I am unable to download or use maps on my garmin as my mac does not have the relevant upgraded syste, I still operate on osx 10.5.8 and according to may sources is is certain death for mac to upgrade to the higher spec due to age!!! I noticed Kern that you mentioned your partners ipad.....does the garmin 800 connect to an ipad?

  25. Ian wrote:

    A brief note for Ruth re upgrading her Mac: If you do upgrade your OS make sure you do not have file vault turned on. I did and had some awful trouble accessing a variety of files. It took me ages to figure out a workaround. The default setting for filevault is off but you might want to make sure. Go to: system preferences – security – filevault

    I'm running OS 10.6.8 on a Macbook Pro that is around 6 years old and it runs fine.

  26. Kern wrote:

    Hi Ruth. I'm glad you found the review useful. We learned a couple of things about the Garmin on our recent Pyrenees tour.

    We had hoped we would be able to upload our daily rides to the Connect.Garmin site using Mary's iPad. To do that Mary bought a USB-to-Apple adapter to let us plug the Garmin into the iPad input port. It didn't work. The iPad gave a message that the Garmin is not supported because it draws too much power.

    We probably could have loaded our rides if we had also brought a microSD adapter since the Garmin uses a microSD card for its memory. However I haven't tested this so the information is speculative.

    So much for getting information from the Garmin to the iPad.

    If you are trying to load maps via the iPad onto the Garmin I have no idea if the microSD adapter approach would work. Given our overall success rate with Garmin and maps I would not count on it.

    The maps we bought for Europe were not very useful on our ride. We tried to use them in a number of ways.

    First, if we were at point A and wanted to get to point B some distance away (say 40 kilometers), the Garmin would first ask which State we wanted to go to. If we typed in "Spain" or "Catalonia" it did not recognize our input. In other words, it is not programmed to gather information for locations outside the United States.

    Second, we did use it a couple of times to get to a proximate village. This worked but was a bit clunky. In this mode, all the villages within a radius of 15 km are displayed. It was then a matter of scrolling through the list (sorted by proximity) to select the town you want to go to. A map was a lot easier to use.

    Third, when we were looking at the overall map of the area on the Garmin, we were only able to zoom in and out based on our centered position. We could not pan across to view adjacent areas. This was very frustrating. We supposedly had excellent maps of Europe in the palms of our hands but could not use them to plan a daily route at the level of detail we needed.

    Four, one of Garmin's touted features is having lists of hotels, restaurants, etc. These lists are useful for public infrastructure (e.g. finding the train station), but for choosing a hotel it was not very informative. Selecting a hotel when rolling into a town at the end of a day is an interesting exercise. (In Europe, we read, always aim for the church steeple.) Generally we (i.e. Mary) likes to give a hotel a once-over visual assessment. If you know the name of the hotel you are looking for the Garmin is great (that's how we navigated our last 10 km into Girona). Otherwise selecting a hotel from the list of offerings is a random event.

    The other thing of note was charging. Because the Garmin charges via its USB port we (i.e. I) assumed that the standard, small rectangular USB adapter that you use to charge your phone would work. It does not. I guess all chargers are not equal. (I don't understand this from a design perspective but I'm sure someone can explain it.) Fortunately we also brought along the Garmin charger, otherwise we would have been without the Garmin for the trip.

    So, in summary I would say 1) the Garmin is not compatible with the iPad and 2) the maps are of very limited value. However, it is a great device for 3) giving lots of feedback during the ride and 4) recording it.

    I would still buy it for those purposes.

  27. Patrick wrote:

    It takes a bit of pre-planning but it can be useful to have potential 'target' towns – or even hotels – entered as Waypoints before a trip. That way, if you want the Garmin to navigate to it you simply set it to go to your selected Waypoint. I use Google Earth to create the Waypoints (FWIW) but there are other methods probably simpler.

    This is not Garmin 800-specific of course, but on various occasions we've navigated to the centre of a town rather than the overnight accommodation, if, say, we arrive mid-afternoon and want to look round first. Then when we are ready we 'go to' the previously Waypointed hotel (or B&B, campsite, etc).

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